Episode 3.11: Underworld
THE PODCAST: March 2, 2021
ON PUZZLE PEICES, SHAME AND DISCOVERIES
Join us on a journey to the underworld as we dig deep into some of the harder and more hidden aspects of the work of systems change & equity and what it demands of each us individually. This episode is not for the faint-hearted, kit up and dive in.
Together, Tim Merry and Tuesday Ryan-Hart are THE OUTSIDE—systems change and equity facilitators who bring the fresh air necessary to organize movements, organizations, and collaborators forward for progress, surfacing new mindsets for greater participation and shared impact.
3.11 — SHOW NOTES
Tim: This week, on the podcast, we have one of those irresistible invitations for you: “Join us… in the underworld! A place where bludgeoning puzzle pieces fall from the sky, where fire is hot underfoot, where fear, anxiety and shame roam around prodding us… but yet discoveries still become possible.” There is no sweet ending to this one, friends, but we invite you on the journey with us.
Tim: We’ve talked about the underworld before - this idea of being in a period of time that is the underworld. I picked it up from a blog written by Martin Shaw. I think this is something about, not just the societal community context we’re facing, but also the underworlds we’re journeying in inside ourselves.
Tues: The underworld feels like an evocative place to describe a feeling or sense. All I can do is be present to it and then decide what to do. If you want transformation, you have to go deep, you have to go dark and dive in. Yet in those moments, I’m as shaky as anyone can be and not always sure.
Tim: I imagine that many of our listeners can relate to this idea of bringing something new into their places, lives and work and the feelings we’re talking about as being archetypal, this feeling of being in the underworld as part of the human experience/journeys that we go through. We [The Outside] do this exercise called Generative Listening and the first question we ask is: “Tell about a time when your life or your work required you to step forward with courage or reveal more about yourself.” This question, really consistently, is one of the moments in our work when people form some of the foundational relational bonds that enable them to tackle seemingly insurmountable challenges. There is something about fessing up, being brutally honest about these moments we’re in or the journeys we’re going through that is central to the work.
Tues: When we do the generative listening exercise, we often say to folks, this is not necessarily a story where you are the hero coming in to save the day, this story might not even have an ending… so there is something about reminding people that we are not necessarily, as we tell these stories, casting ourselves as the victorious protagonist that overcame something. There is a vulnerability in the storytelling that I think helps people connect.
Tim: I’m interested in how our different backgrounds turn up, in different ways, in the underworld or how different parts of us are triggered or provoked at being in the underworld. Shame was a weapon of control growing up for me - within my family, within the institutions I was put through - that is how we were kind of battered into the shape/primed to be in positions that would have been considered societal establishment power. A lot of that was about conformity. And so, for me I feel like I’ve been in the underworld for a while. Part of what I am realizing is that you get these puzzle pieces falling from the sky… and then you want to leave with them. In the leaving, you meet some of the toughest resistance. There has been a lot of journeying for me and what I encounter is “you can’t leave with that; you have to conform.”
Tues: That does not feel as much part of my story but what would keep me from bringing that gift out and back up into the light might be a concern around safety. Black people don’t get to just do what they want. Culturally, when what you are is not the norm, when all the benchmarks reject what you are, I think there is some real freedom in that but there is an inability or a lack of safety to express it. As I thought about this week in doing the Goddess Class - my overriding concern was will this decrease my credibility? I have to make a living. People see me in a certain way. I worked hard to be seen in a certain way. Will this undermine that? Will I lose credibility… and not because of conformity but actually because as a Black person, credibility/how you’re viewed in this white supremacist society is of utmost important - it’s how you’re safe, it’s how you make a living, it’s how you walk down the street - it’s more of a safety concern, sometimes physical safety for sure but also economic. But I don’t ever not do what I am being called to do because of conformity; unless it will not make me safe.
Tim: The interesting thing about conformity for me was the price of not conforming was brutal - it was violent, it was humiliating, it was shaming, it was abusive… but there was never an economic risk to it.
Tues: Human beings need belonging and I think that is the basic human need that is threatened if you do not conform. Belonging can feel like not having the love that each of us needs but at reptilian brain level it’s survival. Belonging is survival.
Tues + Tim: As you can hear listeners, we’re in the middle of the underworld and are glad that we shared a glimpse into each other’s particular underworld and we hope that’s useful to you.
Song: “The Truth,” by Handsome Boy Modeling School, featuring Roisin of Moloko & J LivePoem: “Surrender” from the book Her Strange Angels, by Sarah La Rosa
You are led, barefoot and bleedingthrough the dark of your soul
in the bewilderment of your heart
to a place where cool earth waits.
Surrender you sister
is a marvellously gifted and expert guide.
Though she carries a sword
in the hand at her side
do not be alarmed.
She will care for you here.
Whatever is cut
hacked
and bleeding in you
will begin the mending
remembering process of healing
in Surrender’s earthen home below.
You will stay with her awhile.
For many days
weeks
perhaps months.
You will maybe stay longer.
Once the time is right, though
you will return above ground
to the leaves and the winds
and the yellow sunlight.
You may have trouble recognizing yourself
as well as others.
Your ears, eyes and nose changed
while you were underground.
Your sight softened in the darkness so long.
Your hearing magnified
within your skull and throat
bringing the pattering steps of mice
to your consciousness
as the thud and thwack of big things
dark and powerful things prowling the night.
And your sense of smell sharpened
growing so accustomed to the moist soil
beneath your feet
and the scent of woody roots
above your head.
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Duration: 45:47
Produced by: Mark Coffin
Theme music: Gary Blakemore
Episode cover image: source